Panzer 38(t) Ausf.E/F Kaputt

[Dario Risso]

I started Dragon's 6434 kit yesterday; no much parts glued yet; it has a lot of interior parts, so I'm studying pics of damaged vehicles to represent a KO'ed tank, with a drive wheel and a track broken and most hatches opened.

Some interesting pics I found:






The kit provide decals for this one


These are not damaged, but I like how the pics shows the dust on the road wheels:





And these ones shows a metal shine around the wheels:





I can't find pics of the holes made by projectiles, but...this project has just started, I'm still watching pics.

Darío

[Roy Schlicht]

Great project. Should be interesting. From what you described as to what kind of damage you want to portray I think your best bet is to go with a mine. Set your vehicle as if it just hit a mine and the crew is all outside looking at the damage or taking cover from small arms fire. Great set of pictures.

Roy

[Dario Risso]

Well, great idea, Roy, thanks. I will start the building, except wheels, so, meanwhile I can get more info.
Darío

[Jamie Tainton]

Damn, sorry I wasn't able to get mine done to guide you, I guess I'll have to learn from your pioneering effort!

[Roy Schlicht]

One thing to take away from the pictures you posted is just how dark Panzer Grey is. Look at the picture (second from bottom) of a clean 131. If is wasn't for the sun light reflecting off of it, it would be even darker.

Roy

[Derek Baker]

At the risk of offending someone who is likely more knowledgeable on these things, I will throw my two-cents worth in here....

That's absolutely true Roy.When the Panzer Grey was first applied, it was quite dark. However, that paint was especially prone to fading and staining, so in the hot Russian summer of 41, especially in the central & southern parts, the grey quickly faded and was covered or stained with a ton of dust. (They just didn't make durable paints like we do now) So, the upper and/or horizontal surfaces often had a very different tone to them than the vertical and/or lower ones. Consequently, painting Axis armour with German Grey requires some carefully controlled blending between different shades and tones on various parts of the vehicle.

I wish I could have found an image I remember being in either Panzer Colours book ro a Panzer Tracks book, which showed a Marder III (I think) that had a huge difference in shades between the upper walls (which were often partially covered by the bad-weather roof tarp) and the lower walls (which were always exposed to the elements). The difference was not subtle!

Also, keep in mind that the black & white films of the day (especially the ones that a common soldier could afford) were very contrasty, slow, and lacked the dynamic range more modern films had, so it was very easy to overexpose or underexpose images, leading to blown-out highlights and/or dark grey/black where there should have been moderate shades and smooth transitions between levels of grey.

I have attached a few pics to show what I mean. I have done my best to avoid images that have been colourized, and in fact, several of the pics I recognize from an excellent Osprey book on the history of the 6th Pz Div (not 6th Army) that I owned. That book had some colour pics taken by the author with early Agfa film between 1941 and 1945. (note: the close-up of the early Panzerkamfwagen IVD was taken by that author very soon after Barbarossa began) Also, any pic from Life Magazine would be a reliable source I would think, so in the last attachment, the grey in the lower hull of the Panzerjager should be a fair representation of what German Grey paint looked like after being exposed to the elements for a long time. Note too how the gun barrel is darker than even the original German Grey, a result of the paint on the barrel being heated during repeated firing of the weapon.

The only caveat in using these pics for reference would be that the films of the day shifted their colour balance if not developed right away, and you can see this in some of the pics, so that needs to be taken into account when assessing the tones of grey and any camouflage colours.

Finally, from what I have seen in photos of 38(t) tanks that have taken a fatal hit (including some in the book I mentioned earlier), the welded panels have separated, the turret has been pushed out of the ring, and much of the superstructure has been distorted/broken. Unlike later tanks, with their thick cast/rolled/welded armour and a sturdier superstructure, few knocked-out light tanks with a bolted on construction seem to be found looking on the outside like they're nearly intact, with just a neat hole where penetration occured. If the tank was hit with a medium or large calibre round (even low velocity HE from artillery), the entire tank was usually seriously damaged or destroyed. If the tank 'brewed-up' then the destruction could be total. The only exception would be a hit from a small-calibre high-velocity anti-tank rifle, of which the Russians had many.

I hope this helps! :-)

regards,

Derek

[Dario Risso]

James, no problem...I will advance with myself between russian AT gun, mines, mud, mist....alone...abandoned
Roy, you're right; I've read that as the paint was satin or matt, it takes a lot of dust, and that's why we see the vehicles with colors lighter than just built ones.
Derek, thanks for the pics, very informative post.

I like tank 525, but with less damages, just the drive wheel and left track. This is my first Pz 38 and don't want it destroyed

First of all, I want show a diorama that I like a lot and I will use as "inspiration", specially the tall base.



More pictures in or in

This is a Hetzer distributor; as we can see, the spark cables are nor visibles, they go inside the corrugated tube to the other side of the engine block
BTW, the Hetzer has 2 carburators?...I mean...those things under the pale blue tube are carburators, aren't?



First parts glued; some tubes added. Dragon guys, with well intentions, molded a vertical part with the hull roof, to support the engine covers; but this part overlap some details od the firewall, so, it will be modified



We cann see some color in the engine compartment: part dark gray, part red primer. This is a vehicle beibg restored by a reenactor group: (http://www.lssah.com/38t_restoration.htm)



The vehicle exposed in the Plus Model shows the engine compartment in green color...No idea wich green the czechs people uses.



In these 2 thread (and in others), british collegue Michael McLaughlin wrote something about a restored panzer 38

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/th ... ior+colors

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/th ... rder+III+M

I use a mix of green and earth to make the "czech green". I can't tell you exactly the color, I use automotive paints, but is more or less like mixing XF58 and XF52 in ratio 10:2







Is just the start, it need more cables, tubes and of course, dirt

Cheers
Darío

[Derek Baker]

The build and painting is looking great Dario!!

I am looking forward to your build and your opinion of the model. I like the 38(t), plus vehicles that are based on the 38(t), but the only one I constructed was an old Italieri version. It went together easily, but the detail is much much better in the new models.

cheers,

Derek

[Dario Risso]

Well, the engine compartment is ready:





I start the terrain; let me try to explain the scene, the tank was hited at the left drive sprocket and the track has broken; the right side track continue rolling for few seconds, so the tank turns to the left and fell in the ditch and hit the tree, not broken, but pulled a little from the roots.

I make this pictures, using an old Italeri panzer 38 and Photoshop for the terrain:





Do you guys think the idea is OK? Perhaps the right side track should do some drag marks on the ground?

I see this video of a Hetzer turning to the left:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxrNx1b3 ... re=related

Darío

[Roy Schlicht]

Very interesting. I would try and find some pictures of tanks that had thrown a track or had one damaged and see what the reaction of the tank was. This may be a hard thing to do as I don't know how many pictures are out there that show this. I like your idea.

Roy