about "late Pz IV H" ...

[Laurent Moitrot]

[Kirk Johnston]

Laurent,
Thanks for the info, I will have to go back and look at my reference photos and re-examine this vehicle again. I do remember having a couple of side views of “536” and it sure appeared to be a late Ausf. H, however with earlier production tracks and earlier road wheel covers. Zimmerit pattern and areas of application are as later production vehicles and late steel return rollers were also installed as I recall. I will try a post these photos’s and see what the consensus is.

Tally Ho!

KJ

[Kirk Johnston]

Additional photo of "536". Probably hard to see in this photo, but frontal armor is 80mm single plate, so I would have to say that this vehicle is a late model with some earlier tracks. Wish I could find a rear veiw, Comments?

KJ


536 Side View.jpg

[Dario Risso]

May be I'm wrong, but....the presence of steel return rollers dosn't means it is a late H or a J?

Darío

[Laurent Moitrot]

[Dario Risso]

I've told you before: you are a well of knowledge

Thanks for the lesson

Darío

[Laurent Moitrot]

Very kind of you Dario but I'm afraid my ignorance is much deeper than the my modest knowledge ...

Anyway if you gauys want to make an earlyer version of the h, use a G hull or the Tamiya kit.
Or wait until Dragon ...
I've heard they'll have a panzer IV H with the air filters out soon.

[Kirk Johnston]

Right On Laurent, very well presented. I had based my opinion on 635 in regards to the single 80mm frontal armor without having any rear views of the vehicle it is almost impossible to determine if this is a eariler production or a later production, I tend to agree with your conclusion that 635 is a eariler H as most other Pz IV's from the same unit that I have seen are eariler models. It is odd that zimmerit pattern and areas of application are identical to even 837 which we know is a later production batch, however some panzers IV's from the same divison did have turrent shields coated while others did not and some had side skirts coated while others did not, I would think this had to be done by field maintenance units and not factory applied. Oh well I do have the Dragon/Cyber Hobby Ausf J, quess I can jump on that and build a Das Reich vehicle from the Normandy battles, I want to build one out of the box (adding zimmerit of course) and one detailed with the new Griffon set. Guess I will hold the Dragon Ausf H for that build sometime after completing the Trumpeter 1/16 King Tiger which I am slowly still working on - kind of got overwhlemed by the build so I am taking a break from it.

Cheers
KJ

[Laurent Moitrot]

Kirk.
Remember most of the well known pics of Pz IVs from HJ were shot very early in 44, not in June. This explains the different production batches. We can guess the whole 5th and 6th company has earlyer prod models and maybe the 8th has more recent versions ...just a guess.
Now about the early J I'm pretty sure one can build these panzers from Das Reich as seen here :


but again, maybe not each company had recent tanks.

Kirk may I ask you which decorations the Ausf J kit offers ?
Can you scan the instructions ?

[Kirk Johnston]

Laurent,

Yeah I know several publications covering the Normandy battles post photos of HJ 5th & 6th company Pz IV's that were taken in late 43 and early 44 while in Belgium long before being deployed to France. I would quess that only a few replacement vehicles were of the "late" production batches. The Dragon Ausf J kit contains markings for three vehicles - "733" from 3.Pz.Div/ "Totenkopf", Eastern Front 1944 - "524" Unidentified Unit, Western Front 1945 and "621" 6.Pz.Rgt2. 2.Pz. Div. "Das Reich", France 1944 (Sister vehicle of "622" from the posted photo). Very nice kit which includes all necessary parts to correctly model the initial/early production Ausf. J, highly recommended - I picked one up on E-bay for $37.00 USD which included shipping inside the U.S. I will scan the instruction sheet and post it this weekend.

Cheers
KJ