1/24, Tasca Panzer II F...and dark grey

[Markus Lack]

LOL! Good definition mate!
Seeing it this way, you are correct since it´s most unlikely to see our kits in anyones art collection.

[Jamie Tainton]

was this pic posted? Looks pretty fucking dark to me.

[Laurent Moitrot]

Excellent pic !
It reminds me of these family pics, on the beach, where the sky looks deep dark blue (when it is not really) and people have the deep brown tan skin ... see what I mean ?
Sometimes a polarizing filter helps ...

[Piotr Mikolajski]

I've cleaden up a little photo of Bovington's tank, prepared colour sample from patch of original paint and added some white to gain Ian Huntley's scale effect samples:



Of course this picture will be displayed differently on various monitors but shows one important thing - 1/24 and 1/35 scales kits should be almost as dark, as original AFVs.

[Jamie Tainton]

While not a big believer in the scale effect theory I am grateful to you for adding to the debate!

[Piotr Mikolajski]

I've started to be believer when I've shot some photos of Antonov An-2 on local airfield. I know this aircraft very well - I was one of painters of

Colours seen on photos made on different distance slightly varied even on brand new and shiny aircraft. I'm quite sure that distance effect seen on aicraft / vehicle painted with matt paints would be much more visible. But still - blueish overcast made by distance and perspective effect doesn't explain using so light greys on 1/35 scale kits.

[Paul Truesdale]

Late replying here but one thing I notice in the last photo on page 2, interesting aerial recognition flags......orange, I assume this is the Invasion of France?

I agree about the Panzer gray, almost black..... but I also think it's a form of artistic expression/license whatever you call it. I have a few books which show some color plates are really a dark gray not light gray like in the movies (Battle of the Bulge for example).

Interesting discussion but I really think you won't convince some modellers even by showing historical photos.

Paul (serpico on PA)

[Jamie Tainton]

Yes Paul one can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Nice of you to drop in, hope you hang around.

[Allan Williams]

In the spirit of stimulating some discussion I thought I’d throw a few uneducated thoughts into the mix.
I’ve followed a number of these discussions about panzer colours, primarily because I know bugger all about it, and it’s a topic that never really seems to come to any concrete conclusions. It’s nice to see a debate where the participants appear to have more of an interest in establishing some concrete solution rather than simply proving that they’re right. Ha! Better to learn than know it all!
I think it’s worth noting that in the photo of the vehicle column Pawel posted on page 1, that the tone of grey varies on each of the vehicles shown, and all the greys so far demonstrated have a strong tone of blue in them. Although certainly nothing akin to that awesome ensemble that Jamie is modelling on page 1.
Below are two photos of an early pattern 2cm Flak 38. Captured by Australians in North Africa in about ’42. Having only been on public display for a short period in the 60s (or 70s, can’t remember) and otherwise in storage since the end of the war. Therefore it hasn’t been exposed to excessive ultra violet light or other elements to a degree that would drastically effect the colour of the paint, beyond simple aging.
As you can see, the grey is quite light which, despite the flash, I can vouch is only marginally lighter than in reality.

Underside of cover for rear Lafettenkasten.


Underside of Flakvisier platform.


For me, this begs the question, was artillery subject to the same colour guidelines as armour and other vehicles. Previously, I would have thought so. The same can be said for the truck in the second picture of Laurent’s response on page 1. Which, although it is overexposed, would not reduce the grey to a tone as dark what we’ve seen on many other vehicles and ordnance.
There is also evidence of a primer visible underneath the grey, so I’m not sure how this is relative to what Laurent was saying. Perhaps due to the combination of steel and alloy used throughout the weapon.
I’m also not familiar with the scale effect theory, but it does stand to reason in principle, that the smaller the surface, the greater the consideration for the strength of the colour needs to be. As with the opposite.
Enough from me!

[Jamie Tainton]